Is Prigozhin really assaulting Moscow to kill Shoigu???
This is what the western world is saying in the news
This is what the western world is saying in the news
I'm russian and live in Germany. But I really don't know what's going on!
What has been reported before this was that Shoigu ordered all of Prigozhin's men to come under the control of the Russian Defense Department. When Prigozhin refused this it was clear that he planned to fight.
We live in a heartless world falling apart. Drama is all over the place, and nobody does nothing about it.
This is what happens when the curtain of propaganda is moved away for a short time and you can see what is really going on in Russia.
I believe that living in Russia is a big disadvantage to understand the situation, because if you live in Russia, you are the primary target for very sophisticated propaganda and you have very limited means to defend yourself against the regime.
I believe that living in Russia is a big disadvantage to understand the situation, because if you live in Russia, you are the primary target for very sophisticated propaganda and you have very limited means to defend yourself against the regime.
@jose1122 said in #1:
> Is Prigozhin really assaulting Moscow to kill Shoigu???
>
> This is what the western world is saying in the news
I’m not Russian but I will try my best to explain. The Wagner chief Prigozhin has accused the Russian ministry of defence of killing 2000 of his troops in a missile strike on the 23rd of June he has also previously accused the Russian military of Defense of mining the area his troops were retreating to. For the past few months he has been heavily criticising how the Russian Ministry of Defense has handled Putins illegal invasion and has gone as far as accusing a Russian government organisation of treason due to the huge number of casualties Russia has suffered. He has probably been considering this for months and I guess the missile strike is what finally pushed him over the edge. So last night he ordered his forces to depose Putin unless Putin put him in charge of the Ministry of Defense. Putin has so far refused to do that so a group of around 25000 soldiers (almost all of the Wagner soldiers) left Ukraine fighting Russian troops they came across whilst they were leaving. They reached Rostov on Don a city of over 1 million people where they occupied aerodrome and numerous command centres they are currently in control of the entire city they have also occupied numerous other towns in the region and they are currently heading to Moscow to depose Putin unless he agrees to Prigozhin deal they are currently about 500km away. This coup will probably not succeed due to the Russians having complete control of the skys and they have more artillery and tanks but Russias invasion of Ukraine was only opposed to take a week so I wouldn’t be to surprised if Wagner troops reached red square. Even if this coup does fail it will almost certainly lead to the Russian invasion of Ukraine failing. This is because Wagner have pretty much abandoned the front line around Bakhmut and there are very few Russian soldiers in that area so Ukraine will probably make a breakthrough their. The rest of the frontline will probably collapse in the next week. As Russian soldiers will be brought back to Russia to stop Wagner entering Moscow. This will mean the only people the Ukrainians will have to fight to liberate their country is militant separatists armed only with old Soviet equipment and almost no artillery or air support.
> Is Prigozhin really assaulting Moscow to kill Shoigu???
>
> This is what the western world is saying in the news
I’m not Russian but I will try my best to explain. The Wagner chief Prigozhin has accused the Russian ministry of defence of killing 2000 of his troops in a missile strike on the 23rd of June he has also previously accused the Russian military of Defense of mining the area his troops were retreating to. For the past few months he has been heavily criticising how the Russian Ministry of Defense has handled Putins illegal invasion and has gone as far as accusing a Russian government organisation of treason due to the huge number of casualties Russia has suffered. He has probably been considering this for months and I guess the missile strike is what finally pushed him over the edge. So last night he ordered his forces to depose Putin unless Putin put him in charge of the Ministry of Defense. Putin has so far refused to do that so a group of around 25000 soldiers (almost all of the Wagner soldiers) left Ukraine fighting Russian troops they came across whilst they were leaving. They reached Rostov on Don a city of over 1 million people where they occupied aerodrome and numerous command centres they are currently in control of the entire city they have also occupied numerous other towns in the region and they are currently heading to Moscow to depose Putin unless he agrees to Prigozhin deal they are currently about 500km away. This coup will probably not succeed due to the Russians having complete control of the skys and they have more artillery and tanks but Russias invasion of Ukraine was only opposed to take a week so I wouldn’t be to surprised if Wagner troops reached red square. Even if this coup does fail it will almost certainly lead to the Russian invasion of Ukraine failing. This is because Wagner have pretty much abandoned the front line around Bakhmut and there are very few Russian soldiers in that area so Ukraine will probably make a breakthrough their. The rest of the frontline will probably collapse in the next week. As Russian soldiers will be brought back to Russia to stop Wagner entering Moscow. This will mean the only people the Ukrainians will have to fight to liberate their country is militant separatists armed only with old Soviet equipment and almost no artillery or air support.
Prigozhin accused Putin of attacking his forces in the back. But it's the fog of war, so you know nothing for certain. Everything can be fake.
That said, I think the friction between Putin and Prigozhin looks very Machiavellian. Machiavelli warns those in power of those who help them ascend to power. So while Prigozhin was useful for Putin, now he's becoming a liability, together with his many convicts. Putin promised them freedom, but he may not really want the convicts actually back on the streets. So he wants to use them in battle, but use them up.
Prigozhin leads an army of convicts, so he understands this dynamic and may be getting increasingly paranoid. Maybe Putin really did attack his position with some rocket strike, thinning his forces out further, before they can grow into a future problem. Doesn't really matter if it's true, it's certainly going to be on his mind. And if Putin is indeed thinning out Wagner, it means he thinks he can do without them soon. That could signal he plans to scale down the invasion significantly.
That said, I think the friction between Putin and Prigozhin looks very Machiavellian. Machiavelli warns those in power of those who help them ascend to power. So while Prigozhin was useful for Putin, now he's becoming a liability, together with his many convicts. Putin promised them freedom, but he may not really want the convicts actually back on the streets. So he wants to use them in battle, but use them up.
Prigozhin leads an army of convicts, so he understands this dynamic and may be getting increasingly paranoid. Maybe Putin really did attack his position with some rocket strike, thinning his forces out further, before they can grow into a future problem. Doesn't really matter if it's true, it's certainly going to be on his mind. And if Putin is indeed thinning out Wagner, it means he thinks he can do without them soon. That could signal he plans to scale down the invasion significantly.
Let me make two predictions:
1] "Prigozhin coup" will fail. He is a dead man now.
2] The Lichess pro-Putin trolls will not be much active in the next hours.
They don't know what to "think", because no one told them what to think yet.
This whole situation is a disaster for Putin.
1] "Prigozhin coup" will fail. He is a dead man now.
2] The Lichess pro-Putin trolls will not be much active in the next hours.
They don't know what to "think", because no one told them what to think yet.
This whole situation is a disaster for Putin.
@irinagoncharova said in #2:
> I'm russian and live in Germany. But I really don't know what's going on!
This YouTube Channel is called Inside Russia:
www.youtube.com/live/oIn41Gl6pVU
> I'm russian and live in Germany. But I really don't know what's going on!
This YouTube Channel is called Inside Russia:
www.youtube.com/live/oIn41Gl6pVU
@jose1122 said in #1:
> Is Prigozhin really assaulting Moscow to kill Shoigu???
>
> This is what the western world is saying in the news
tass.ru/proisshestviya/18104113
This is a constantly updated page on the TASS website, you can read the information available to Russian citizens here.
I will give my opinion on what is happening very briefly.
In numerous videos that he posted on the telegram channel, Prigozhin positioned himself as the only savior of Russia in this war and at the same time ridiculed the Russian army and personally the Minister of Defense and the Chief of the General Staff. A couple of times he let it slip that he would like to take the post of Minister of Defense and even does not mind becoming the president of Russia after Putin leaves.
The "boyars" did not like this, and they took steps to streamline relations between the army and PMC Wagner. Prigogine ignored this.
Perhaps he was provoked into open rebellion. But this rebellion is not against the tsar, but against some boyars. Prigozhin has no political program, no party. This rebellion is doomed. The people did not support Prigozhin - on the contrary, they consider him a traitor.
PS. I forgot an important detail: the headquarters of the SVO is located in Rostov, and Prigozhin met with two deputies of the Minister of Defense and said that he would not interfere with the work of the headquarters.
> Is Prigozhin really assaulting Moscow to kill Shoigu???
>
> This is what the western world is saying in the news
tass.ru/proisshestviya/18104113
This is a constantly updated page on the TASS website, you can read the information available to Russian citizens here.
I will give my opinion on what is happening very briefly.
In numerous videos that he posted on the telegram channel, Prigozhin positioned himself as the only savior of Russia in this war and at the same time ridiculed the Russian army and personally the Minister of Defense and the Chief of the General Staff. A couple of times he let it slip that he would like to take the post of Minister of Defense and even does not mind becoming the president of Russia after Putin leaves.
The "boyars" did not like this, and they took steps to streamline relations between the army and PMC Wagner. Prigogine ignored this.
Perhaps he was provoked into open rebellion. But this rebellion is not against the tsar, but against some boyars. Prigozhin has no political program, no party. This rebellion is doomed. The people did not support Prigozhin - on the contrary, they consider him a traitor.
PS. I forgot an important detail: the headquarters of the SVO is located in Rostov, and Prigozhin met with two deputies of the Minister of Defense and said that he would not interfere with the work of the headquarters.
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