PETITION from CONCERNED USERS

Let me clarify why this thread is ridiculous.

The old navigation system was objectively bad. As new features were added to the site over time, they were somewhat haphazardly added to whatever page seemed to make sense. New pages were sometimes linked to from the header, sometimes from the footer, sometimes from secondary pages that they were loosely related to, and some features were so buried I don't even know how they were intended to be accessed.

The devs put a plan into action to fix this. They put an actual web designer on task to create a design that met their goals. A handful of users disliked it, and due to a tongue-in-cheek comment from Thibault, somehow everyone associated with the site is now some sort of hypocritical authoritarian?

What rationally minded people do in such a situation is recognize the change was needed, and then rather than attacking the devs with such ridiculous accusations, and rather than petitioning to go back to the broken system that was in place before, they present ideas on how to improve the design that was chosen to make it more friendly. I believe that's what rational people do, yes? They have a discourse, not a tantrum.

> The old navigation system was objectively bad.

In my opinion it was intuitive to use. And now its a wild click rally thru multiple page jumps.

#72 You are entitled to have that opinion. Every user's experience is going to be uniquely subjective. There will always be people who feel one way of doing something is more intuitive than another, especially when they are able to compare the two.

You may like dandelions. This doesn't make them any less *objectively* an invasive weed. You may find the old system more intuitive. This doesn't make it any less *objectively* bad from a design philosophy.

static___: dude -- you should be a politician. Please stop beating yourself. Sorry, I just came up for air -- I am busy writing you a LOVE note in the other thread.... you 'win'

The new update is fine to me, but I don't really like the change from pressing space bar to esc. I know it's not much difference, but esc is in the corner. Maybe we could have both?

Thanks

#73
All this depents on the question what objectivity is at all. What you call objective is for me your subjective view. And nothing more.

And design philosophy ..... lol. Design is a kind of art and art is always a subjective thing. Its not an car engine where you objectivly can say it works and brings me home or it doesnt and i have to take the bus.

Transposed to here, a button is a button, objectively we can decide if the button works or not. But that is independent from the position the button is on the page. And this position stuff is a subjective thing, nothing else.

I perfectly agree with KMagik opinion, that at least the main page should function like a control panel, and should be grant easy overview and access to all features of the site:
"I can understand hiding options when we are on the chessboard screen. But hiding it while we are on the main page of lichess? Isn't main page the one that's supposed to present user with all the features that site provides? Where am I now supposed to go to see site's features? to the main page or to full-screen menu? I think that this may be confusing for new user, especially because this button doesn't scream "menu" on itself. This is why it's redundant, it doubles the functionality of the main page."

Joel, if a button is hidden in 3 sub-menus, is that good design?

If to start my car I need to turn in a circle three times and praise the good lord Cthulu, and there's no instruction manual saying I need to do that, is that objectively bad design, or objectively good design? Or is it subjectively good because all design is art, and all art is subjective (note you have completely separated the concept of art as a function and art as a purpose).

Without getting into the philosophy of aesthetics, your reply is astoundingly logically flawed.

The button might work, but is it better to have a button where it can easily be seen, or a button hidden behind several sub menus?

I, too, feel like this UI is somewhat clunky.

I'm spending time reading the menu - I can't even imagine what that's like for a new user.

The menu basically treats all options the same and is a big word splatter on the screen. It's inconvenient and feels odd trying to click certain things.

#78

With the sub menus, at the very least they are intuitive.

Let me give an example.

Let's say you want to make a game.

Now let's consider the two designs.

1. There are bars on the top-left corner.
Generally these will be visible and you will most likely notice them. It's a common style that most people should understand.

So they scroll up if need be to the bar up-top and they look at the options. Logically it would be under the "Play" button. Whether you use sub menus or redirect to the main page, they will be brought to the page where they can then make a game.

2. There is a button which brings up a full screen menu with all options available.

I want to play a game. There, and for whatever page I'm on I look and I don't see any button relating to making a new game or bringing me to a place where I can make a new game.

I might eventually go, "Oh, what's that abstract art up in the top-left?" If I'm familiar with the site I'd probably instinctively look up there for it and be confused for only a few seconds after clicking it.

Someone unfamiliar might struggle to grasp the concept that this circle with lines on it will bring up a menu that will give them the ability to get to the page they want.

A personal gripe I have is that there isn't a button that simply brings me to the games page without opening up a prompt menu to create a game.

Before you say "That's the lichess.org button," that is obscured when I go to the pop-up menu for navigating to everywhere else.

See how navigation elements are arbitrarily separated? It's not just the games page, but also my user-page is also covered up so I can't get to it while the navigation menu is up.

Isn't there something wrong with a navigation menu impeding my navigation?

Sorry for the long post and I certainly don't mean to offend. Just thought I'd contribute to the discussion, which I do think is meaningful.